that's dope Sweetness ! what day is your show?
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12
Joined: Nov '09
Posts: 99Posted 4 years ago #I can't stand that it's too late to mention it to him on here, but Sactown was the engine of this forum in a lot of ways. I could sense the passion and lucidity in literally every post he made, and I wish he could hear the appreciation everyone of us had for his insight and effort as a poster; I hope he realized his point of view was appreciated.
I was always so impressed by the initiative he would take in writing reviews of shows, getting interviews with the P, and of course the Point of Rhyme website. He was definitely a generous and thoughtful dude in that sense. I'll always look at that as inspiration to share and to live with passion. R.I.P.
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LP
Joined: Oct '06
Posts: 380Posted 4 years ago #Haven't logged in in a while and am just learning about this through this topic. The letter he wrote was heartbreaking. Sad to see he's left us.
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P fan #1
Joined: May '10
Posts: 539Posted 4 years ago #Damn! It's taken me a minute to get my thoughts in order, but what still saddens me the most about this tragedy is that I can't shake the feeling that Sac might still be around if he'd only managed to hold out a little bit longer and seen his outlook on life improve.
I've not been as much of a longtime or active member around these parts as some of y'all, and I didn't have as close a relationship with him (via social media etc.), but his passing definitely leaves a void. In many ways he embodied the heart and soul of this forum, not only because he was the site's lead poster, but because of the genuine sense of excitement, positivity, unique personality, humor and (fan) community he conveyed in many of his posts. For as long as I can think he was one of THE main forces keeping this place alive, feeding us inside info gleaned directly from Thes and Double or simply funneling in positive energy by going the extra mile (and beyond) for the P and his fellow fans.
One of the ugliest things about depression is that it's extremely difficult to recognise in others (even more so if they actively try and hold it inside) and even more subjective. Looking back there were hints hidden amongst his instagram posts etc. but I don't think anyone could've possible known the full extent of his feelings and/or personal situation. Heck, we'd just exchanged emails about a crazy project idea of mine which didn't pan out a few weeks back and he was laughing off the scare of a recent car accident...
It's totally messed up that anything we put together now feels a bit like it's too little too late, so I think one of the most important things we have to do is keep his spirit alive by realizing something he would've appreciated (i.e. Po maintaining The Point of The Rhyme as mentioned on the other thread).
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P fan #1
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 1,427Posted 4 years ago #t
YoYoPo said:
that's dope Sweetness ! what day is your show?tonight at 11 PM (CT) you can stream worldwide at wsum.org/player
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P fan #1
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 588Posted 4 years ago #just found out. cant believe it. wish it wasnt true
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EP
Joined: Apr '14
Posts: 283Posted 4 years ago #This is all so sad. Pat was such a great person, and he definitely didn't deserve the hand that life dealt him. We really have no idea if he suffered from depression or not, but that doesn't matter. I'm not one to blame abstract concepts for the free choices that people make. Not that depression didn't play (or couldn't have played) a part in this, but depression couldn't have told the whole story. Life can be too difficult to bear. And there's nothing to keep you going but your will to live, and your desire to see things through.
There is no inherent meaning to life, there is only the meaning you choose to impose on it.
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I met Pat 2 years ago in Sacramento at my very first PUTS show. I showed up early to beat the traffic from SF, and he came early to help out Thes and KK with whatever they needed. They apparently didn't need any help at first, so Pat and I just hung out outside, listened to the soundcheck, and talked for a good hour and a half. I'll send more about the time we met to YoYoPo for the memorial book, but even then I could tell he was struggling with life - even if he was braving through it. Obviously, I never thought it would come to suicide.
One of the things we talked about was his work situation. I'm hazy on the details, but from what I remember he was passed up for promotion a couple of times and ended up having to take some remedial position that didn't have much to do with his training or education, or at least was well below his training level. And from other things he posted here later, I don't think his work situation improved any despite the fact that he worked hard and seemed to genuinely enjoy the kind of work he was doing. It's so tough to put a lot of hard work and energy into something and never have it work out.
In his final words, one of the things that really stood out to me was that Pat believed that he had outlived his usefulness. It's certainly hard to believe that you're useful if you can't get ahead in your job. Especially for men, it seems that society only values our utility. If we can't make something of ourselves, or we can't do something big, then what's the point of us being around at all. That's a tough burden to bear. But that's something that men are constantly told, which is why we constantly bury our emotions in order to achieve some imaginary goal that we believe will justify our existence. And why it can be easy to think that your life is worthless if you can't, or don't want to, go on proving your utility to others.
In another post, about 7-8 months ago, Pat wrote that he and his wife had been trying to have a baby but that nothing was happening. I have no idea how much that may or may not have played a part in what was going on between him and his wife, but being able to produce life is another big thing that a man is supposed to do and it can be a huge blow when you can't.
He wrote that in response to a post I had made that my wife and I were going to have a little girl. I never wrote about this later, but we ended up losing the baby last December after 6 months of pregnancy. It was easily the most difficult and heartbreaking thing I've ever experienced. I didn't write about it because I'm a big tough guy who doesn't share his struggles with the outside world. Maybe Pat would've benefited from knowing that he wasn't the only one having problems: it's bad enough to be agonizing inside, it's even worse when you feel that you are the only person in agony while the rest of the world is moving happily around you. I never went so far as to come up with a plan, much less implement one, but I certainly understand the desire for solace that suicide brings. I'll never get over the death of my daughter, but my wife and I will keep on pushing. We're trying again now to get pregnant, and it's not happening as easily as we'd like, and it's frustrating as hell. We want so bad to have back the life we lost, which, of course, isn't the right way to look at it, but it's hard not to.
Pat also said that even if he were to make it through all of this that he'd be a hollow shell of the person he was before. This, of course, also isn't the right way to look at things. But, again, it's hard not to.
It also seemed like Pat had been shying away from the forum over the past year. He used to post something just about everyday, but over the last year his posts came fewer and fewer. He said that he had been busy with life, but I'm guessing that in reality he was feeling more and more burdened by life even if he didn't realize it. Then everything came crashing down with his wife and it was all too much for him to handle at once.
I don't know what could've been done (if anything) to help him. And even though none of us saw this coming, including Pat in all likelihood, everything was there to see: we all just have to want to look at it the right way. That's easier said than done, I know.
But you are more than your utility to others. You are more than your job or your marriage or your children. You are more than your past. You are more than what's happening in the present. There is nothing decided about the future. You don't have to justify your existence to anybody. And, ultimately, life is as good or as bad as you want it to be. It's ok to be sad, sad things happen. Better not to let all the sad things build up until they become unbearable.
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Pat: I'm sorry life didn't work out the way you wanted. You deserved better.
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EP
Joined: Apr '14
Posts: 283Posted 4 years ago #This song is for Pat:
This song is for us:
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P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 584Posted 4 years ago #Your post makes a lot of sense De La & I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Life can be sad & hard but also beautiful & rewarding. As you say you have to find a way to keep on keeping on & I just wish Pat could've found some hope. Thanks for sharing & your wise words. Tunes were on point as well. Peace.
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The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,376Posted 4 years ago #Wow, De La - thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that is. I'm glad you feel able to put it in perspective and carry on with living life.
Ironically, by talking about something like that in public, you are probably a bigger tough guy than all of us!
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mod
Joined: May '05
Posts: 1,861Posted 4 years ago #That is a deep story DLT, thanks for sharing something so personal; It is very touching . Sorry to hear about your loss and I wish you and your wife the best in trying for another bundle of joy. I am a firm believer in the idea that all things happen for a reason and that you will be faced with trials that make you a stronger and better person if you can work through them.
I can relate to your Man vs Work statement personally. During 2008 I was faced with a devastating choice to shut my construction company down due to the "Great Recession" and the housing crash. This was one of the hardest decisions that I have ever had to make and dealing with the repercussions for the following 6 years was a drudgery to say the least. The fact that my wife was supporting me financially through this time was comforting and at the same time torturous. I was struggling with the "utility" of my being and having no way to provide for my family was discouraging and depressing. The judgement passed by all that knew us was hard to deal with and actually made us more reclusive socially and less likely to interact with friends/family, which fueled the depression inside me. By the end of the 6th year I was at an all-time low emotionally, socially, and mentally. Everyday I had to give myself a pep talk just to be productive and fake positivity for my wife as to not make her overly concerned with my well being and self confidence.
Now with all that said, I don't know how much I would have been affected by this if I was single and not feeling social pressures to be the bread winner for my family. What I can say for certainty is that if it wasn't for my lovely wife's support during that time I would probably not be here today as depression had a death grip on me.
I can relate to what Pat said in his FB post, being depressed impacts all that are around you more than you will ever realize. I look back often at how strong my wife was and I can't help but feel guilt for the emotional rollercoaster I put her through. I thank God everyday that she is here with me still. Hindsight has taught me that what got us through it all was talking about it openly and often. I urge any of you that have feelings of depression to let someone know, it helps to hear others' perspective and feedback. Holding it in will do you no good and create a warped sense of reality internally, potentially leading to the sad ending that Pat succumbed to.
I am not sharing this to get a pity party as life is now better than it has ever been for me. I am sharing this in the hopes to circumvent anything like this happening again to those I respect and love. I too would usually not share such personal info but I feel that this forum is an extension of my family and sometimes just knowing that others are having or had a tough time makes you feel that your not the only one and life will get better if you give it a chance, however long that chance may take....
I wish that I would have shared this story sooner for Pat's sake. Not that it would have made much of a difference but if it helps just one person then it's worth the risk of putting myself out there.
One Love
RIP Pat... #ForeverThePmuny
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LP
Joined: Jun '05
Posts: 425Posted 4 years ago #Man, heart goes out. A fan in the truest sense. Never known anyone to be more passionate about a band/group. Never saw this coming. Same thing happened to a friend a Uni. Such a friendly guy, full of jokes and kind gestures. Depression really needs more widespread info/help/action, as so many suffer. The brain is complicated beyond belief, to understand. I hope one day we do.
RIP Pmuny.
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P fan #1
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 1,427Posted 4 years ago #much love SLC! thanks for sharing! Glad to hear things have turned around for ya!
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P fan #1
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 1,137Posted 4 years ago #Hey y'all,
It's trench from a few years back. This is a sad reason to get back on the P forums but I have to send my condolences to Pat and his family. Reading everything people have said here, as well as knowing Pat (as many here did, through his warmth and inviting presence on these forums, FB, IG and elsewhere in the web), brings me a lot of mixed emotions. I remember back in like '09 when I was just a high school junior, so hyped on the P. I wrote a paper for my U.S. history class on the origins of hip-hop and it's potential to propel change in disadvantaged communities in the U.S. and elsewhere. I remember I even posted the whole thing on the forum, I'm sure it's here somewhere. Pat was one of maybe 2 or 3 people that read the whole thing. He even talked to me about it after, giving pointers and even crediting me with a good job on it.
This is just one story from one acquaintance of his, but I just want to let people know that people don't normally stretch themselves like that for another person, especially a young, vulnerable guy like myself. Writing this gives me some solace, but truthfully I'm going to keep thinking about Pat and his untimely loss. It's going to be alright man, you always meant more than you know.
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