as part of lasting legacy for Double K there's an effort to get his wikipedia page up to scratch. AndyMak has made a great start. Sharing here - maybe we can dsicuss edits here rather than everyone jumping in to make changes at once?
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The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,444Posted 3 weeks ago #Useful source material!
Peter Agoston's House List podcast long interview with Double K
https://soundcloud.com/thehouselistpodcast/ep-81-double-k-putsArchivist interview with PUTS
History of the P from the Stepfather DVD (now on youtube)
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P fan #1
Joined: May '10
Posts: 574Posted 3 weeks ago #I reckon the best way to go about this would probably be to first focus on straightening out the PUTS entry on Wikipedia (which is currently a bit of a mess and flagged accordingly) and then subsequently addressing Mike's specific contributions and solo ventures on his own page?
Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot in terms of an official solo career or corresponding releases/production credits to document. (I'd argue mixtapes are somewhat of a grey area; any and all material that was leaked or uploaded by other people and through various backchannels on the other hand - often without Double's consent - should probably be omitted entirely.)Also keep in mind anything submitted to Wiki & Co. should be kept to fairly broad strokes and offer an encyclopedic (factual, objective, "general interest") overview rather than specific details. While the latter trivia are what we as fans cherish most, they aren't going to be particularly relevant to most (other) folks.
(If anyone wanted to write a more comprehensive, in-depth article or eulogy (?), perhaps YoYoPo could find a way to host + incorporate it around these parts, similar to the TPOTR lyrics archive.)Wikipedia's volunteer contribution and sourcing policies have always been somewhat iffy.
That being said, I'm not sure whether YouTube vids, Peter Agoston's podcast (which is excellent, but really more of a freeform conversation/oral history than a traditional Q&A interview format), social media posts or the recent slew of poorly sourced clickbait articles spreading the news of Double K's untimely passing (and copying from one another) constitute decent/reliable sources even by those tenous standards.
[*Bites back exasperated commentary on what passes for journalism nowadays and online (music/Hip Hop centric) publications in particular...*]Last but not least (this goes without saying, really) I would ask that everyone respect the Turner family's privacy.
(F the tabloid "writers" out there!
)
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The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,444Posted 3 weeks ago #yeah I think his collaborations (Murs / Log Cabin, Ugly Duckling, Breakestra, Villain Park, Aesthetics Crew etc) and largely-unreleased side projects (Tha Brotherload, High Risk, Dooley-O etc) should be mentioned but the discography should focus on his official releases;
- Clinophobia as only real solo album
- Olde Soul + Double K 7"
- Notable physical release mixtapes (I Ain't Gettin Better / Uuh... I Hope You Got Your Sunglasses On Out There... / the one with AC The PD)
- Brothaload and solo tracks on various compilations (mostly Female Fun releases)Worth mentioning his musical family - father (musician with various releases), younger brother (Smoke in Villain Park) and sister (rapper Pookie Blow). His cousin being Computer Jay is a useful titbit but probably not worth being so high up the list?
I've also reached out to Erve who took lots of great portraits of the P over the years to see if he has a favourite photo we could use for Mike...
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The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,444Posted 3 weeks ago #I've started a shared word doc we can use to collaborate - see what you think Twelve!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kjnxMFABL_bLSNTtCGrwny9dN-0snPF_/view?usp=sharing
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P fan #1
Joined: May '10
Posts: 574Posted 3 weeks ago #^^ No worries. / No problem.
My previous post wasn't intended as criticism or anything of the sort, it's more that I'm surprised to see the lengths people go to to enter detailed biographical information (about artists) into Wikipedia, an (online) encyclopedia.
(Not that the preservation or dissemination of knowledge is a bad thing, I just find Wikipedia as medium for biographies to be an odd (somewhat contradictory) choice: To me encyclopedias = repositories of brief general facts about a wide range of subjects vs. biographies = extended in-depth information on one person's life/career.)With that in mind it feels doubly strange to try and create separate bios for Thes and Double (as individual "group members" or separate artists) - you inevitably end up referencing PUTS.
I've just given the current Wiki pages for People Under The Stairs and Thes One a cursory read and TBH the overlap of truly relevant information on either could (/should?) probably be condensed into a single comprehensive entry about the P.
There's a ton of extremely specific trivia information in both:Wikipedia said:
"This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may interest only a particular audience."
I mean I'm not looking to discourage you or anything of the kind - go for it.
All I'm saying is you might want to consider what exactly you're looking to accomplish and possibly choose a different approach before you invest a lot of time + effort into the Wikipedia thing... -
The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,444Posted 3 weeks ago #agreed, hopefully we can neaten it all up a bit. If there's already niche titbits in there (probably from Pat!) I'm cool with leaving them in. But adding anything I agree it's worth keeping it straight forward.
Looks like I can't edit wikipedia - it says my IP is blocked due to wiki misuse but must be from my ISP?
So I might just have to chip in with ideasThe PUTS discography also needs a tidy. For example TGOS 1 & 2 aren't listed as studio releases and just reference youtube?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Under_the_Stairs_discographythere's a lot of duplicate info - wikipedia, discogs, then Pat's site, parts of this site. Trying to get my head around how to consolidate it all... Appreciate your editor's eye on all this Twelve
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P fan #1
Joined: May '10
Posts: 574Posted 3 weeks ago #YoYoPo said:
agreed, hopefully we can neaten it all up a bit. If there's already niche titbits in there (probably from Pat!) I'm cool with leaving them in. But adding anything I agree it's worth keeping it straight forward.Looks like I can't edit wikipedia - it says my IP is blocked due to wiki misuse but must be from my ISP?
So I might just have to chip in with ideasThe PUTS discography also needs a tidy. For example TGOS 1 & 2 aren't listed as studio releases and just reference youtube?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Under_the_Stairs_discographythere's a lot of duplicate info - wikipedia, discogs, then Pat's site, parts of this site. Trying to get my head around how to consolidate it all... Appreciate your editor's eye on all this Twelve
Yeah, I browsed through the editing history on some of the pages last evening and Pat's name is on a bunch of contributions 'til ~2014.
Had a look at some of the Wikipedia guidelines as well (here's a link concerning reliable sources for you ).
In case you hadn't realized this before: digging up the necessary published articles, interviews, etc., to meet the required standard and inputting the respective citations is going to be about as much fun as the footnotes on your typical academic paper, report or writing assignment...
Again, I'd highly recommend tidying up stuff on the PUTS page (such as the incomplete discography, correcting the link to South Korean Double K, etc.) rather than starting at the opposite end and attempting to build up Mike's newly added page. It's simpler (+ much more efficient) to refer anything that ISN'T related to solo ventures back to the PUTS page than to submit redundant info.
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The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,444Posted 3 weeks ago #I managed to jump in via another computer and make some edits. I massively updated the PUTS discography and made few tweaks to Double K's page. Some more way to go.
But, super useful I also stumbled across a copy of Double K's bio from myspace days (which I think was written by him). So probably the most accurate source! Peep (all CAPS was his!) -
https://www.bandmine.com/lacienigga
L.A. MIKE BETTER KNOWN AS DOUBLE K IS A NATIVE OF WEST LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA. HE WAS BORN AS MICHAEL TURNER JR. UNDER THE SIGN OF LEO TO LATANYA MCCLEAN AND MICHAEL TURNER SR (R.I.P.). YOUNG MIKEY FIRST ROCKED THE MIC AT HIS CRESCENT HEIGHTS NEIGHBORHOOD’S ANNUAL SUMMER BLOCK PARTIES. HIS NEIGHBORS, FAMILY, AND FRIENDS WOULD LOOK ON AS A CHUBBY CHEEKED PRE-TEEN WEARING LOCS, KHAKIS AND AN L.A. KINGS HAT SPOUTED NWA LYRICS WITH AN IN YOUR FACE ATTITUDE LIKE AN OLD SCHOOL PRO. BESIDES CLASSIC HIP HOP SUCH AS THIS, MICHAEL WAS HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY AN EARLY INTRODUCTION TO THE FUNK. ARTISTS LIKE JAMES BROWN, SLY STONE, RICK JAMES, AND MOST OF ALL GEORGLE CLINTON AND PALIAMENT FUNKADELIC FREED HIS MIND AND HIS ASS STILL FOLLOWS TO THIS DAY.WHEN HE WAS 11, HIS BIG BROTHER DJ SWEAT BEGAN TEACHING HIM THE TURNTABLES THE BEST WAY HE KNEW HOW. HE LOCKED HIM IN A ROOM WITH A CRATE OF RECORDS AND A SET OF TECHNIC 1200’S. WHILE ATTENDING ALEXANDER HAMILTON HIGH SCHOOL, MICHAEL KNOWN THEN AS DJ KAOS ALONG SIDE HIS PARTNER DJ PROPS WOULD SPIN UNDERGROUND HIP-HOP AND OLD P FUNK RECORDS AT SCHOOL FUNCTIONS. HE WAS NOTED AS SAYING THAT HE COULDN’T WAIT TO GET HIS FIRST CAR SO HE COULD ROLL PASS THE SCHOOL BUMPIN “MORE BOUNCE”. HE CONTINUED ON THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND A COUPLE YEARS FOLLOWING SELLING MIXTAPES AND SPINNING AT HOUSE PARTIES AROUND L.A.
MICHAEL FIRST MET CHRIS PORTUGAL BETTER KNOWN AS THES ONE AT MARTIN’S RECORD SHOP ON PICO BLVD IN LOS ANGELES. THEY REMAINED IN CONTACT THROUGH A MUTUAL FRIEND AND THE REST IS HIP HOP HISTORY. ALL IT TOOK WAS THE TWO TO PLAY THEIR BEATS FOR EACH OTHER AND THE JOURNEY BEGAN THAT FORMED THE INFAMOUS DUO THE PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS. PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS RELEASED THEIR DEBUT LP THE NEXT STEP ON OM RECORDS IN 1998. SINCE THEN THEY’VE RELEASED THREE MORE ALBUMS, TRAVELED THE WORLD MANY TIMES OVER AND HAVE ACCUMULATED A DIVERSE INTERNATIONAL FANBASE. AS A SOLO ARTIST HE’S BEEN FEATURED ON TRACKS WITH THE BREAKESTRA, UGLY DUCKLING, JURRASIC 5, AND MURS TO NAME A FEW. HIS COLLABORATIONS AREN'T LIMITED JUST TO HIP HOP. AS KIDD DRUNKADELIC THE BAR CHILD, DOUBLE HAS PICKED UP THE BASS GUITAR AND RECORDED WITH FUNK LEGENDS BILLY BASS NELSON, MICHAEL “KIDD FUNKADELIC” HAMPTON, AND MOST NOTABLY HIS IDOL MR. GEORGE CLINTON.
IN THE BACK OF HIS BELOVED GRANDMOTHER’S HOUSE, MS. OLETA JAMES, HE TRANSFORMED THE GARAGE INTO THE BLACKYARD RECORDING STUDIO WHERE HE RECORDED THE FIRST ALBUM BY THA BROTHALOAD, A GROUP IN WHICH HE FOUNDED. THA BROTHALOAD
CONSISTS OF HIMSELF AND SOME OF HIS CLOSEST PATNAZ. THE BROTHALOAD IS CURRENTLY DOING SHOWS ALL OVER LOS ANGELES AS WELL AS LAYING TRACKS IN THE STUDIO FOR SEVERAL UPCOMING PROJECTS. CHECK THEM OUT ON THE WEB AT http://www.myspace.com/thabrothaload. IN 2005 MICHAEL RE-ISSUED A MIX CD UNDER THE NAME L.A. MIKE ENTITLED "UHH, I HOPE Y’ALL GOT YOUR SUNGLASSES ON OUT THERE". THIS WAS PREVIOUSLY ONLY AVAILABLE THROUGH DOUBLE HIMSELF IF HE DECIDED TO SELL A FEW AT SHOWS. THIS MIX OF TRUE SCHOOL HIP HOP AND FUNK TRACKS IS A RARE ITEM TO FIND, BUT WELL WORTH THE HUNT. HE IS CURRENTLY IN THE STUDIO WORKING ON HIS FIRST FULL LENGTH SOLO LP ENTITLED MENACE II SOBRIETY WHICH WILL BE RELEASED ON HIS OWN ILL COSBY RECORD LABEL. THIS ALBUM WILL FEATURE GUEST APPEARANCES BY THA BROTHALOAD, AS WELL AS HIS IDOL DR. FUNKENSTEIN HIMSELF GEORGE CLINTON. STAY TUNED, AND STAY LOADED CAUSE EVERYTHANG IS ON THE ONE Y'ALL.
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