The Outrage is pretty funny in retrospect - it was a definite diss at ODub, but now they are best of friends!

Seriously, I don't get it - roughly 95% of Hip Hop "beef" is infantile BS drummed up for commercial purposes anyway...

Check out this track at around 1:26 into the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYQq6agbvk

He says, "Curse out Thes One and Double K, motherfucker I'm Double K (Kan Kick)," and he possibly takes a couple more shots after that.

This is probably old news (I think this was released in 2005), but it is interesting. I wonder what sparked that?

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As far as DOOM and Madlib being overrated goes, I'd say that applies much more to Madlib than DOOM. Though I still love them both. While I liked the Beat Konducta/Medicine Show stuff, I didn't love it. And there was no full album in there that I really got into. Madlib is a lot better when he's with an MC (Mos Def - Auditorium anyone?) as opposed to on his own or with the Jaylib sh!t. Madvillain is obviously the best example, though I wouldn't say that's DOOM's best album.

Madlib did had a new album come out this year with Freddie Gibbs called Piñata, which is awesome. I'd definitely recommend checking that out. There's some fantastic beats in there like Deeper, High, Harold's, Thuggin, and Laker's. Really the whole album is good, not a bad song in there. Plus his newest Quasimoto album (Yessir, Whatever) was great. And I really like the first Quasimoto album too, though not the second so much.

Madlib is very eccentric, so it's understandable why he could be hard to get into. But I think that when he's good he's great.

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The only DOOM album I don't like is Born This Way, though there are a couple good ones in there. NehruvianDOOM I liked a lot on first listen, and I like it more and more every time I here it. The only knock on it is that it's short, but being a huge punk fan I'm used to short albums. And his last album, JJ DOOM, I thought was really good too and very different from his other sh!t.

Operation Doomsday is a classic and my personal favorite of his. MM Food is kinda hit or miss but the hits are great (Rap Snitches Kinishes, Hoe Cakes). And I've always really liked King Geedorah. Viktor Vaughn isn't my favorite but both of those albums are still solid. And I can always listen to the Special Herbs and Spices box set and never get tired of it.

And while DOOM doesn't have a great voice, his rhyme schemes are some of the most interesting I've ever heard. No one raps like he does. And I really can't blame him for slowing down as he's still had 2 albums come out in the last 3 years, and 3 in the last 6 or 7. It would be really hard for him to keep up the pace he was on in the early 2000's. Plus he does sh!t with random people and doesn't worry about how popular his collaborators are.

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To be fair, I still like PUTS better but DOOM is next on the list. My top five (hip-hop artists) are Tribe, PUTS, DOOM, Mac Dre, and Curren$y.

At least Doom has been in the game for a quite the long time (80's). I rate Black Bastards as one of my favorite all-around-best-classic -hip hop albums. If you don't know of his KMD -days, you should check it out for sure. Other good albums by him:

Vaudeville Villain
Venomous Villain
King Geedorah
MM..Food

Saw real DOOM live once, and he was quite alright! Nothing to complain.

Madlib just seems a bit short spanned with attention when it comes to finishing beats. I was at this lecture/live interview where Peanut Butter Wolf (really easy to talk to guy by the way) was talking about his history and such, and he was telling about how Madlib would make like ten folds of beats compared to others. Like he asked for some beats and Madlib would give him 100-200 to pick from. But I think his "concept" albums are not as cohesive. Best all-around Madlib -albums, production wise, for me is still Madvillainy. But Madlib has earned his place as a producer, not loop digga (I think Lootpack's Antidote is great btw), and has worked from early nineties so I respect him yeah.

SactownConnection said:

On another note: I'm not a monumental fan of DOOM or Madlib either, but I'm not about to say much regarding their talent. I've sorta found out lately that, even if I dislike their art/style/genre, there are a ton of artists that still probably deserve more respect than I give them, ESPECIALLY hip-hop artists and producers.

Connecting on that, I've never checked out DOOM's catalogue's in its entirety, but have heard his classic, and the bit that I have, I find that his lyricism & beats are unique. But like you, I've never fallen head over heels for them. Just Tha P, son, amongst other artists. It takes a lot for me to really dig and get hooked in listening to an artist's entire catalogue. Rakim, he's thee man. One of my other favorites, and Tha P has sampled their work, is Gang Starr. Guru, hands down, is one of the most legendary lyricists in my book. Some of my other favorite lyricists (in the male category) is Talib,, and Gift of Gab (Blackalicious), along with a few select MCs from Wu... the list can go on, and on.

I've seen The P mentioned in a few interviews that they're also a fan of [b]MGMT[/b. Their music is far out.... :P

SactownConnection said:

The Madlib thing was unintentional.
I'm also guilty of seeing beef that isn't there.
I'm picky with my music.

respect sactown, i feel ya on the pickyness! thanks for your take on this whole thing!

My tl;dr (too long; didn't read) summation:
The Madlib thing was unintentional.
I'm also guilty of seeing beef that isn't there.
I'm picky with my music.

Anyway, back on topic: thanks for pulling out the wiki entry I left based on 10YOTO. That's exactly what I would've cited too: looks like it was an unintentional, one-sided beef on Madlib's part that eventually died down. I think threads like this are completely nerdy, but I love them and completely understand them (I'm the biggest nerd on here... have you seen my post count???) I don't hate ya, playas.

Here's a good example of my own misconceptions: I thought that the line "look, man... you shouldn't be our opening act!!" from "Up Yo Spine" on Fun DMC was a secret diss at Ugly Duckling for a while (because of their song "Opening Act")... but some other cats on the board set me straight (it was just a regular ol' rap on KK's part). I think the only tension that's existed between PUTS & UD was during the "A Little Salsa" remix: Thes wasn't given much time, and then just told to hand over his un-assembled, raw components, and then UD had someone else piece it all together to make the remix, so Thes was really not a fan of how it sounded on the final track, and he mentions that that's probably why he wasn't invited to be on Taste The Secret like KK was. (They are completely friends now, so it blew over, but still...)

I think the moral is that beef happens, whether minor or major, but most people shouldn't put much stock in it. PUTS apparently doesn't too much.

On another note: I'm not a monumental fan of DOOM or Madlib either, but I'm not about to say much regarding their talent. I've sorta found out lately that, even if I dislike their art/style/genre, there are a ton of artists that still probably deserve more respect than I give them, ESPECIALLY hip-hop artists and producers.

Most music I've been directed to from the PUTS boards, from word-of-mouth, etc. I end up not being a fan of, and most of what I end up REALLY digging isn't even hip-hop: Boards of Canada, Stereolab, MGMT (to some extent), etc. I think my problem is I need it to either sound organic (real instrumentation, funk, jazz, etc.) or it has to have a certain atmosphericness or static/distortion that's more ephemeral and innovative (and less cheesy/corny). There are a lot of artists out there who are good at what they do, but the beats just sound too keyboard/computer-ish or it has that "pop snap" kind of thing that I hate.

And don't even get me started on the emceeing: I've been trying for ten years to figure out why I like what I like, and I still don't understand it myself. Some people's flows just rub me the wrong way. I can't tell you why I love Rakim, but don't like Nas. I think we've all got our preferences.