seriously?

De La Tribe said:
I was at that show where they blow up at each other (I grew up down the street from the venue), there was a very weird vibe that didn't make sense until seeing the documentary. According to the doc, phife, because of his health, didn't want to do the accapella version of Jazz and was mad at tip for pushing him to do it. So they blow up at each other before the show, and what does q-tip do after the third or fourth song? Calls out to do the accapella version of Jazz. What a dick. Ali refuses to do it by not playing the old version that segways into the accapella part, and every one just sits there for 5 or so minutes while they have a stair off - I don't think phife was even on stage at the time. They end up playing the album version (q-tip may even have done it himself, I don't remember), then they all decide to do the acapella version, then they do the album version again. They played Jazz three full times through. Not complaining because Jazz is one of my favorites, but that was weird. I think phife had to go off stage after that, and q-tip did some songs without him like Bonita Applebum and Footprints.

Really enjoyed this story ^^. Always great hearing additional POVs and angles to a situation to get a more complete picture.

De La Tribe said:
The biggest bullshizzle part that doesn't come through in the documentary is where q-tip is yelling that he's doing this whole tour for phife and his medical bills. Calling shenanigans on that right now. That tour was right before The Rennaissance came out, and q-tip was promoting the f*** out of it. Posters and flyers and t-shirts for it everywhere. He even did a short solo set with never before heard stuff from the album before tribe came on (which was actually really cool - one of the better sets of the night). So the idea that he was doing this for phife's benefit alone is ridiculous. All of this is to say that I definitely understand why they broke up, and after seeing the documentary I never expected them to get back together.

Yeah, that struck me as completely overblown and self-righteous on Tip's part as well:
He may have agreed to accept the show offer(s) to help Malik pay his medical bills, but I'm sure he was handsomely rewarded for those gigs as well. Having the opportunity to promote his new album would've just been more icing on the cake...

His death really hit me, as much as it can for someone I didn't actually know. I always dug his rhymes more than q-tip's (no diss to q-tip), and when rapping along I always do his parts. Butter is the only rap song I can do all the way thru (or used to, I'm a little rusty at the moment), and that was the song that solidified my fandom. It was great to hear a lot of the tributes though, the Atlanta traffic guy was cool, and the local old school station did a real cool hour-long mix, including this freestyle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymzWdiUxbaM.

Totally agree about Dilla. For me his best stuff by far was with Tribe, Slum Village, and Common. I like him a lot more when he's producing for someone else rather than doing solo sh!t. Personally, I think donuts is overrated. Hopefully, people don't do a bunch of new sh!t with old phife sh!t cuz twelve is right, it won't be that good.

As for the documentary, I really enjoyed it and need to watch it again now. Totally get if you wanted to see more about their craft, but I think Rappaport fairly captured both their personalities. The best moment is when q-tip is blowing up at the end and you just see ali shaheed rolling his eyes in the background.

I was at that show where they blow up at each other (I grew up down the street from the venue), there was a very weird vibe that didn't make sense until seeing the documentary. According to the doc, phife, because of his health, didn't want to do the accapella version of Jazz and was mad at tip for pushing him to do it. So they blow up at each other before the show, and what does q-tip do after the third or fourth song? Calls out to do the accapella version of Jazz. What a dick. Ali refuses to do it by not playing the old version that segways into the accapella part, and every one just sits there for 5 or so minutes while they have a stair off - I don't think phife was even on stage at the time. They end up playing the album version (q-tip may even have done it himself, I don't remember), then they all decide to do the acapella version, then they do the album version again. They played Jazz three full times through. Not complaining because Jazz is one of my favorites, but that was weird. I think phife had to go off stage after that, and q-tip did some songs without him like Bonita Applebum and Footprints.

The biggest bullshizzle part that doesn't come through in the documentary is where q-tip is yelling that he's doing this whole tour for phife and his medical bills. Calling shenanigans on that right now. That tour was right before The Rennaissance came out, and q-tip was promoting the f*** out of it. Posters and flyers and t-shirts for it everywhere. He even did a short solo set with never before heard stuff from the album before tribe came on (which was actually really cool - one of the better sets of the night). So the idea that he was doing this for phife's benefit alone is ridiculous. All of this is to say that I definitely understand why they broke up, and after seeing the documentary I never expected them to get back together.

Apparently all three got together to do 1 or 2 songs for q-tip's The Last Zulu (if it ever comes out), so I'm interested to hear how that turns out.

I've also decided that Midnight Marauders is the greatest album of all time. Not just rap album, but greatest album ever! f*** the beatles!

I also think BR&L might be better than Low End Theory, but that's a tough call. And The [Last] Movement I think is right up there, it's highly highly highly underrated.

BTT I was kinda appalled to see people already attempting to cash in on Phife's passing by selling his Groove Attack-published solo album for crazy amounts. <img src="https://www.putsonline.co.uk/forum/my-plugins/bb-smilies/pfunk/icon_evil.gif" title="}:-@" class="bb_smilies" /> That's just such a low thing to do IMO. Whoever spends big money on it is really gonna be disappointed, too: that album was ~3-5 bucks a week ago and it's average at best - not even on the same scale as Tribe...

Dillatronic had one incredible beat I loved. They are sketches in a way but still glad to hear them.

Time to give some new producers some shine though?...

Pure class - does it get any better? (P aside):

Dwight said:
And that's kind of a pet peeve of mine with Dilla too. He's one of my favorite producers of all time but the stuff being released now (The King of Beats, Dillatronic, etc.) is just not good to me. It sounds like material that shouldn't have been released. I'm tired of seeing new Dilla albums being released all the time.

Personally I think things can be broken down fairly simple: I'm a BIG fan of Jay Dee's work (1st Down, Slum Village, Pharcyde, Tribe/Ummah, etc.), but not nearly as fond of his Dilla period. As much as I respect his versatility as a "producer's producer" and the evolution of his sound, the whole electronic/synthetic sound, the Frank & Dank stripclub jawns and all that simply aren't my bag. In fact I'd go so far as saying anything released post '06 doesn't measure up to the standard Mr. Yancey would've considered the absolute minumum to let the general public hear stuff and I'd love to see someone step to his so-called friends, family and all those other folks profiting off annual events like "Dilla Weekend" and so forth and ask them whether they feel the $$ justify them completely disregarding the man's wishes and artistic integrity...
TBH at this point I wouldn't put it past them to have someone ghost-produce additional material as long as they can keep printing money. Surely those substantial medical bills have been paid by now?
*rant over; BTT*

Twelve said:

Dwight said:
I want the doc to more so go into crazy extreme detail on how the songs and albums were produced and what the inspirations were for all the songs/rhymes and sample choices.

Have you read Brian Coleman's excellent 'Check the Technique: Liner Notes for Hip-Hop Junkies'?
If not I highly recommend picking up a copy as there's a chapter on 'Low End Theory' (and loads of other classic albums of course)...

Yes! That's a great book. That's exactly the type of stuff I love reading about albums.

Twelve said:
I must admit I always find it somewhat surprising how much most folks seem to dis(mis)s 'Beats, Rhymes And Life' and 'The Love Movement' btw.
Sure, they're nowhere near the same level as 'Low End Theory' and 'Midnight Marauders' (both of which are flawless and among the best examples of how perfect albums should sound) and they don't have the impact of 'People's Instinctive Travels' (it's really mostly the singles on this one though IMO)... But BR&L especially is a solid record.
I find this particularly ironic as everyone's been jocking Jay Dee so hard for years, worshipping at their little DILLA shrines and praising all the half baked posthumous material that's been released, but when it comes to the early Ummah production all you hear is crickets..?

Agreed on Beats Rhymes & Life. Not quite as dope as the 1st three albums, but I appreciate how their sound evolved bringing in Dilla. Definitely still a classic to me. Jam is one of my favorite songs ever.

And that's kind of a pet peeve of mine with Dilla too. He's one of my favorite producers of all time but the stuff being released now (The King of Beats, Dillatronic, etc.) is just not good to me. It sounds like material that shouldn't have been released. I'm tired of seeing new Dilla albums being released all the time.

Checking about differences between the 2 DVD versions earlier today I've got to correct my earlier post: Phife DID in fact attend the premiere, so it was only Q-Tip who was on the fence about it. Understandably so as he's the one taking the blame and being portrayed as a diva of sorts...
(Even if that may not be too far off the mark. Yes, he's a brilliant musician, but even the late Chris Lighty pointed out that he's creative/perfectionistic/controlling to the point that Midnight Marauders had to be taken from him and put out to avoid it turning into something that otherwise might've been "finished" around the Y2K...)

Extra points to Phife Diggy for admitting to the fact that the issues between him and Tip were essentially BS, too. The 5 foot assassin was and always will be larger than life.