Twelve said:
Just my 2 cents of course, but a De La album needs to be centered around Pos, Dave and Mase, not a random bunch of other guys, especially if De La have no relationship with these people (2Chainz, the Darkness guy they'd never even heard of, etc.).

#truth Let's hope they get back to that, eventually, and not have to wait 12 years for it. Plus the inclusion of Prince Paul would be nice.

Just look at the lineup for this record: MF Doom (Rock Co Kane was the lead single), Ghostface, Common, Sean Paul (at least they had the sense not to include that one on US copies of he album), Flavor Flav and Spike Lee (wtf?). And while Mr. Dumile - unsurprisingly this was before the current DOOM mania became full blown - and Mr. Coles delivered, Common's appearance is forgettable and I can't stand the song with Flav and skip it every time.
It's very much the same on the production front. Only one of the J. Dilla beats is nice ('Much More'), 9th Wonder's effort stands out like a sore thumb and I can't get into either of the Madlib jawns either. The "underdogs" Dave West and Jake One are the ones who really end up shouldering most of the weight and defining the sound.

Just my 2 cents of course, but a De La album needs to be centered around Pos, Dave and Mase, not a random bunch of other guys, especially if De La have no relationship with these people (2Chainz, the Darkness guy they'd never even heard of, etc.).

Dwight said:
Do people dislike The Grind Date? I think that's one of their best albums; it's outstanding to me.

I really like it and think it's definitely underrated and underappreciated. Plus the pure fire of the cokane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmte57oKe6U

SURE SHOCK CO KANE

The bit where they decide to use dude from The Darkness on their track is a bit weak though. Guest artists by committee... that definitely doesn't feel very natural. But they made a track they wouldn't have otherwise ever made, so maybe it's a good thing for them. It's definitely random!

I do know I was surprised to see it getting a "fancy" 10 year anniversary repress as it was never hard to come by, but perhaps that's something that says more about the randomness of reissues (or lack thereof) than about the album itself.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the musical quality or our respective appreciation of 'Nobody', 'AOI' (remember there's 2 of these 'Mosaic Thump' and 'Bionix') and 'Grind Date', but that's okay.

What do De La's problems with sample clearance making their back catalogue available digitally* really have to do with their last few records though? The Turtles vs. De La and O'Sullivan vs Biz Markie may have been the most publicized and game changing sampling lawsuits, but everyone in the industry was affected to some degree. I really think it's a bit far fetched to try and paint especially this latest album as a direct result of things that happened decades ago. And I'll say it again: the technique of sampling your own music/studio sessions is not as new or groundbreaking as it's made out to be either. I couldn't say if anyone has ever made an entire album using this approach, but it's definitely been done before.

* Also, as far as getting paid from digital/streaming services: I doubt any money the group could make from this (a lot of it is mere fractions of cents so you need a TON, especially if you don't happen to own the rights your own music) would come close to the nest egg Mase, Pos and Dave must have built up from 25+ years of touring and 600k of kickstarter pledges. But whatever revenues there would be certainly play a part in why the topic is being discussed in the first place - it's not like there aren't other ways to obtain the music in question after all...

I was listening to the album more over the weekend and still like it a lot (there's only 2 tracks I don't like: Lord Intended and Here In After), and maybe one of the reasons I like it is that I had very low expectations for it. Being that it was their first album in a while, they were using a new recording and sampling format, and that their previous 4 albums before this weren't good, I certainly wasn't expecting a masterpiece. Not that this is a masterpiece, but I don't think it has to be for me to enjoy it. And I don't think it has to be as good as their original stuff (or even in the same style as their original stuff) in order to be good either.

To use The P as an example, I don't think TGOS 1&2 represent their best work but I still think they're great. Not every album has to be better than the last or groundbreaking in some way to be worth listening to and enjoying. This is definitely a different type of album for De La, like Highlighter was for PUTS. Highlighter isn't my favorite PUTS album, but I still love it. Then they came back with 12SP, which was much more in what I would consider the PUTS style, and maybe De La will do something similar the next time around.

I also think that it's hard to judge De La's more recent past work because of the sampling and back catalogue issues that they've had to deal with that no other hip-hop group has had to deal with (obviously most groups have had sampling issues, but I can't think of one that has had their career derailed as much as De La Soul has because of it). Without those problems I don't think we get bad albums like AOI or Grind Date. So I have no problem taking this album on its own rather than comparing it to their career as a whole. And I certainly don't feel the need to "defend" it. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't have bought it.

Hopefully this leads to more good stuff. And it would still be great for them to get back together with Prince Paul. Maybe adding back that zaniness will help them reach that top tier again.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course, but even most of the positive reviews I've seen strike me as conveying at least some degree of disappointment in how this record turned out?
I'm keenly aware how difficult it can be to admit - even to yourself - when a beloved artist's latest oevre doesn't measure up to expectations, but here's a couple of questions I've started asking myself on such sad occasions:

- would you have become a fan of said artist if this was the first you'd heard by/of them?
- are there enough good/standout tracks that you'd consider buying the album just for these? (And anything that isn't actually on the album doesn't count - what's the point if the best stuff is only available on youtube, as iTunes bonus or whatever)
- does the new material make any sense compared to/add to the artist's overall catalogue? Or to put it another way are you, the listener, the one who's changed, or is it the artist..? And how and why did this change come about?

Personally I'd have to say De La overreached on this project, and despite the amount of money it made through the pledges and subsequent sales, they pretty much blew it.

*edit* I really don't see how Prince Paul would be able to magically remedy things either. It probably wouldn't hurt to have him on board in some capacity, but if one could simply replicate succesful formulas that way someone better have a d@mn good explanation for all the recent Star Wars movies... <img src="https://www.putsonline.co.uk/forum/my-plugins/bb-smilies/pfunk/icon_razz.gif" title=":-P" class="bb_smilies" />