you smoke dodo? said: ...is like having an argument about what the best colour is. (It's purple, motherf*cker).But see that's just a fact. Purple IS the best color. So your logic is faulty there.
but yeah, I agree with what you're kicking down...-
P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 3,255Posted 16 years ago # but yeah, I agree with what you're kicking down... -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #But see that's just a fact. Purple IS the best color. So your logic is faulty there. but yeah, I agree with what you're kicking down
Oh sactown, you flyboys really crack me up... -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 1,659Posted 16 years ago #Maybe not for us proper music heads, but most people i know look at music in a disposable way, you know, download, listen till the song get tiresome, then download another new song, never an album, ive even got som people who treat music as background music *SHOCKHORRORGAWP* and see it as the bit between radio DJs talk...
while i appreciate the need for singles n have nothing against them, i prefer to judge an artist on a whole album, jus gives me a better impresion of them. also, an album CAN be like a book, u can get immersed in it and its like a story, i suppose pink floyd the wall would be the best example of this, a complete story in an album.
So has downloading affected the QUALITY of music unless u count the anolouge vs digital debate then no it hasnt, i just think you have to search a bit harder to get to the quality stuff, as was mentioned in another post with regards to media, everyone has a voice now, you tube, twitter etc, doesnt mean wahat everyone says is always of importance, thats why u have to sift thru the cr*p to get the gems.
peace -
P fan #1
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 537Posted 16 years ago #But then trench, we are hinting at a very interesting philosophical point. Music is an art, and we are trying to view art objectively, which some argue is impossible. This is a very deep and overarching question that has been argued from both sides for a long time.
My second question is, what do we mean by innovation? If we are to view music completely objectively, then we must create a system of rules to compare every album to, regardless of what we personally feel about it, and then be able to determine clearly whether or not it is a classic album. I don't think that's possible.
My best guess as to which albums are "classic" are the one that you are still listening to many years after the album is released. (i.e. my avatar)
In my humble opinion, only time tells you the true classics. Many people will say "The Carter III" was a classic album, and I cannot directly disagree. But when the time comes, and my grandson asks me what I listened to when I was a kid, I'm gonna pull out O.S.T., and show him where the music is.
That's my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt, im not an artist or professional musician/critic or anything. Just a regular cat with 2 eyes and a nose, and most importantly, 2 ears.
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P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #My best guess as to which albums are "classic" are the one that you are still listening to many years after the album is released. (i.e. my avatar)
In my humble opinion, only time tells you the true classics.
I think you hit the nail on the head my good man... -
The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,618Posted 16 years ago #you smoke dodo? said: Also I think if you get too bogged down in semantics, you end up obscuring the fact that most music is enjoyable to someone, and our personal definitions of classic are so ambiguous and intangible, that having an argument about what a classic album is is like having an argument about what the best colour is.
word. you're right dodo. I think we ended up trying to classify a 'classic' in some kind of terms, in order to try to answer the main question, which was has the age of downloading actually affected the quality and integrity of music being put out?
Or is it all objective opinion flim flam wisshy washhy and Thes One is just moaning?? -
P fan #1
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 1,427Posted 16 years ago #the bottom line is the $$$ -
P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 3,255Posted 16 years ago #YoYoPo said:
It is all objective, but Thes One's completely entitled to his opinion. My opinion is this:you smoke dodo? said: Also I think if you get too bogged down in semantics, you end up obscuring the fact that most music is enjoyable to someone, and our personal definitions of classic are so ambiguous and intangible, that having an argument about what a classic album is is like having an argument about what the best colour is.
word. you're right dodo. I think we ended up trying to classify a 'classic' in some kind of terms, in order to try to answer the main question, which was has the age of downloading actually affected the quality and integrity of music being put out?
Or is it all objective opinion flim flam wisshy washhy and Thes One is just moaning??
? From a societal perspective (a.k.a., endurance in the public eye), that 50 cent album and "crazy" and things like that MAY be classics.
? From a personal perspective, there hasn't been a true "classic" yet, but things like "Blazing Arrow" come close.
? From a music creation perspective (not the listener's perspective), I think the downloading phenomenon has made it easier to churn something out and slam it onto facebook or youtube or myspace and get props right away, so people might be enticed to throw something half-baked out there, and that is happening more often. They don't slave away in the studios to make something that is up to their usual quality level (like Boards of Canada taking 3 years or something). Then again, Carried Away was an instance of short lag-time and high quality, so a short studio session doesn't always mean low quality.
? Bottom line: I'd take "All Good Things" as a warning to artists to keep their music worth a d*mn, and a warning to the listener to not go after music because of the number of hits a Facebook page has gotten, and if you want to make an album a classic and you want to give it the respect that status deserves, go out and buy it, don't freeload it from a torrent. You could theoretically make a download a classic, but what's a classic without the support? -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #From a societal perspective (a.k.a., endurance in the public eye), that 50 cent album and "crazy" and things like that MAY be classics.
your too nice sactown, i'm of the mind f*ck what society thinks, and that most people are stupid. But i'm bitter and full of spite for some reason. Maybe i was dropped on my head as a baby.
And i don't agree with the whole "digital music is decreasing quality of output" thing. Perhaps it's increasing the volume, so if you take quality to be overall amount of good sh!t against overall amount of wack sh!t, then yes the overall quality of music is decreasing. But really, the overall amount of good sh!t is almost constant I think, apart from blips like early 90's hip hop... The thing that makes me say that, is that cats in 1958 were probably like "the tape is going to ruin music", and cats in 1982 were like "the cd is going to ruin music", and cats up until this point have been saying "the mp3 is ruining music", and they will say it about the next thing and the next and the next... my 2 cents anyways. -
P fan #1
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 594Posted 16 years ago #i still think tape is going to ruin music
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P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #i still think tape is going to ruin music
you made me spit tea on my keyboard you b@stard! -
LP
Joined: Jun '05
Posts: 428Posted 16 years ago #I think especially in hip-hop there's a lot of people putting out free albums/mixtapes that are better than some proper LP's that have come out lately. I know a lot of dudes that are putting big effort into the production and mixing of free music.
I think a very important aspect of what makes something classic is the 'hip-hop quoteable'. Classic lines everyone remembers that particular emcee for & certain quotes that a lot of dj's have scratched in on a hook. How many time's you heard someone start off with ''There's a war goin on outside, no man is safe from..'' or heard a dj scratching ''I got you stuck off the realness''
what it comes down to is it's been barely a decade and we wont really know or have a good judgment on whats actually classic until more time has passed. but with that said, i think pre-2000 records will always be "classic" on a whole other level than anything that comes out nowadays could ever be, partly because of the whole internet, downloading thing. hopefully it could happen but for now i'm looking for the old stuf
I agree with much of what you said william..
I remember people would come over to my house just to listen to stuff that they hadn't gone out to buy yet. I definitely feel there's an element of nostalgia lost with the downloading thing. Like it was more of an 'event' when you'd go shopping for music with your friends, then being real excited to listen to some new stuff when you hadn't for awhile, when now we're so overloaded. There's an element of something classic there I feel. -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #I don't know about you dudes, but i'd rather be hooked up to the matrix, downloading all the digital music i can get my god damn hands on (legally of course) than waiting for the travelling vinyl LP sales man to make his 6 monthly visit to my dusty little town. I'm all about saturation, and that will probably be my downfall...
Especially with hip hop though. It used to be, someone would tell me about some obscure british hip hop B-side track or some random as f*ck dj compilation album, and I'd be like, yeah i'm happy for you homey, but I'm never gonna get my hands on it so whatever. Now when someone tells me about something dope, I can jump on amazon or suspect packages or whatever and GRAB THAT SH!T... I love it man... -
EP
Joined: Aug '05
Posts: 262Posted 16 years ago #I think the point here essentially adds up to the fact that there has been an unimaginable increase in consumption of music.
I remember being a kid and everybody I knew was always amazed at how many records I had. I used to make £50 a week selling mix tapes man.... Nowadays, everybody has an iPod with like a million tracks on it and everybody thinks they're a f***ing authority on what constitutes "good music". Ironically, the truth is that most of these people do not form their own opinions about music, but they like what's been well packaged and well marketed - and they only like it while it's hot.
Take Amy Winehouse as an example. She's seen as being above pop music; she's an artist, she's raw talent, she's a maverick, blah blah blah. Basically, she has been packaged a "good music", so people suck it up, and she can get away with making - dare I say it - pretty f***ing mediocre music. Sure, she has an interesting and unique voice but a very limited range. I think she's overproduced and I don't think any of her songs are that well written.
BUT.... I know a lot of people who consider her music "classic", because that?s the way she?s marketed.
Kind of lost my own point a little here... Really, the long and short of it is that the consumption of contemporary music (paid for or not) has gone way up, so supply has to meet demand, and every label out there has just kept churning out sh!t for the past ten years.
Jay Z was in the UK this week talking about how Def Jam used to launch 50 artists a year back in 2003, adding that there weren't that many good artists out there, they were just putting anything out.
I think there are fewer classic albums coming out now simply because less care is put into the music than into the marketing/styling etc. Consequently, less money is being put into making real music - classic music - because it's harder to sell. It's just not worth taking any risk anymore...
It used be to called music. Then it was called the music business. Now ? more than ever - it's just plain old business....
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