I feel like the AZ may be taking it to extremes, but you also have to realize if they see someone that looks like they could be from China, or Mongolia, or Russia, wherever, and they are illegal, they get in trouble too. I do not think it is an attack at mexicans, but you do have to realize Arizona is bordering mexico, so of course there will be more mexicans there. I hate that we cant live in a world where everyone could live where they want to, but instead of making this into a bad thing, hopefully people can get their papers and be legal and not have to worry about it.
I know it is an expensive and long process ( I have quite a few friends working on getting their papers right now) but it is worth it and technically it is illegal for you to be here without them so its not necessarily bad to have them. Also, we should all pay taxes and what not, and it does suck housing criminals that are not legal, yet we are paying for them. (well it sucks paying for any criminals actually) I hope what i am saying is coming out right. I am not against immigration and what not, but we already have enough going on in the US and I think it needs to just be controlled, but not in a threatening way like this law. I do hope they find a way so its not RACIAL PROFILING because that is wrong. I know a lot of people that "look" like they are straight from another country but have lived here their whole lives.
I guess all we can do now is just wait and see what happens.
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P fan #1
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 588Posted 16 years ago #You can take the Phoenix Suns off that list:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/04/los.sons/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1
I think it's important to note that not everyone based in Arizona supports this new immigration law. -
P fan #1
Joined: May '05
Posts: 1,528Posted 16 years ago #freshkest said: You can take the Phoenix Suns off that list:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/04/los.sons/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1
I think it's important to note that anyone based in Arizona supports this new immigration law.
who cares about the name on the jersey. they still sell products (tickets to the game, concessions, apparel, etc.) that has taxes attached to it that still go to the city and/or state. -
P fan #1
Joined: May '05
Posts: 1,528Posted 16 years ago #boombip said: I feel like the AZ may be taking it to extremes, but you also have to realize if they see someone that looks like they could be from China, or Mongolia, or Russia, wherever, and they are illegal, they get in trouble too. I do not think it is an attack at mexicans, but you do have to realize Arizona is bordering mexico, so of course there will be more mexicans there. I hate that we cant live in a world where everyone could live where they want to, but instead of making this into a bad thing, hopefully people can get their papers and be legal and not have to worry about it.
I know it is an expensive and long process ( I have quite a few friends working on getting their papers right now) but it is worth it and technically it is illegal for you to be here without them so its not necessarily bad to have them. Also, we should all pay taxes and what not, and it does suck housing criminals that are not legal, yet we are paying for them. (well it sucks paying for any criminals actually) I hope what i am saying is coming out right. I am not against immigration and what not, but we already have enough going on in the US and I think it needs to just be controlled, but not in a threatening way like this law. I do hope they find a way so its not RACIAL PROFILING because that is wrong. I know a lot of people that "look" like they are straight from another country but have lived here their whole lives.
I guess all we can do now is just wait and see what happens.
Boombip, while the law is written to stop and question anyone that appears to be an illegal, the politicians are not portraying it that way. The politicians keep saying the Mexicans are the problem.
I think the real immigration reform would be for every illegal to be given the opportunity to apply for citizenship. Give them a grace period to still live in the country until their application is reviewed. They would have to prove how they have been a productive member of this country and not a leech.
I think it's funny how America turns their back on illegal immigrants, especially Mexicans. Especially when they don't complain when their produce is relatively cheap, they can go to Home Depot to pick up Manuel to do some home repairs on the cheap, have their tables bused and cleaned, etc. Illegal immigrants aren't cheating the system, the system is cheating them. Businesses hire them and pay the under he table. The businesses are ducking the payroll taxes. In some cases the illegal immigrants pay taxes but still cannot reap the benefits of it in the long run (Social Security). -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #Illegal immigrants aren't cheating the system, the system is cheating them.
EXACTLY!! It's the same here in the UK. Everyone is so quick to scream "they're taking our jobs", but in reality they do jobs that british nationals are "too good" to do. The queue outside of the job centre isn't due to illegal immigrants taking the jobs, there's always f*cking jobs, even in a recession. If you're willing to do anything, then there's a job for you. And it's not immigrants who are undercutting the pay of local workers, it's the employers who chose to take advantage of the fact that these people will do anything for work.
People have it all back to front. George Orwell would have a field day. -
P fan #1
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 1,137Posted 16 years ago #Job wise immigrants aren't really a problem. But what I see in the future happening is a critical mass of immigrants coming in illegally. There will be a point where the country simply cannot support them. I do think in this case, that we should more this naturalization process much, much easier. -
7
Joined: Jan '10
Posts: 28 -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #thing is trench, this overwhelming wave of "non-jobwise" illegal immigrants is a myth. There is no such thing. It just buys into the racial stereotype of the lazy, freeloading mexican, which is f*cking bullsh!t.
The paltry amount of immigrants that go in to the US is not going to tip the scales and push the public services past breaking point. The cutting of funding by the government can do that well enough on its own... my 2 pence anyways. -
EP
Joined: Apr '05
Posts: 178Posted 16 years ago #The paltry amount of immigrants that go in to the US is not going to tip the scales and push the public services past breaking point. The cutting of funding by the government can do that well enough on its own... my 2 pence anyways.
Let's be honest though, it's more than a "paltry" amount of people trying to get into the U.S. and I think we all know that no matter what side of this issue you are on.
You honestly can't let everyone in. I know some people hate to hear that but if we let in everyone who wanted to let in yes it would overwhelm government services to keep up with the demand, I don't like people who label others racist when you point out that point.
If we are going to sterotype, Mexican's are some of the hardest working people I've ever seen. If there is a job, they will take it, and most of the time in my experience they will do very little complaining.
I would like to see the amount of allowed immigrantion numbers move up, but on the other hand the idea of a path to legalization for all illegal immigrants will just encourage others to do it that way instead of the proper way. I would also like to see more of an emphasis on actually learning English be you a legal or illegal citizen.
Oh and all this is not to say that I support what Arizona is doing. You are forcing a number of people who are here legally to live in fear, and the state should be more concerned about catching people who are committing major crimes.
Basically both the right and the left need to calm down which is why I'm neither a liberal or a conservative. Not everyone in favor of some sort of immigration laws is a a racist and the xenophonia and flat out ignorance of the right can be disgusting with their gung-ho John Wayne attitude. -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #Lock N Load, I'm not american, I don't know the actual stats, what i do know is that the hype around the actual number of immigrants is way way overblown, as it is here in the UK. There is NOT a surge in immigration, there is NOT a massive wave of immigrants desperate to get in. In comparison to the overall population of the US, the amount of immigration is pretty low I reckon. You could certainly take in a lot more. The reason that there is a perception that there is an overwhelming level of immigration, illegal or otherwise is two-fold, first, xenophobic ideas about dilution of "naturalised population", second the idea of innate self superiority that is part of the american consciousness.
I'm not saying open your borders, although in a perfect world as far as I'm concerned all borders would be open, but that's another conversation. Of course there needs to be some immigration control. But I think your wrong to say everyone should calm down, I think everyone should kick off! This law in arizona is straight up white boy racism. There's no other way to look at it. It sets a precedence of government legitimised ideas of racial superiority. Similar techniques have been used as a pre-cursor in northern ireland, south africa and the gaza strip. How long before you guys have check points and road blocks? -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 1,659Posted 16 years ago #I remember reading somewhere that when you take into account the numbers of people LEAVING the UK every year then the numbers of people entering our country illegally and legally dont really add up to much of a problem, ill google it now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6661645/Record-number-of-people-leaving-Britain.html
its the most recent article i could find, basically tho, lots more people are leaving. actually, heres a another article, bit better:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8536194.stm
Just under 5000 asylum seekers? and people complain, thats feck all.
Peace -
P fan #1
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,874Posted 16 years ago #exactly. I'd bet considerable amounts of money that proportionally by total population the number of asylum seekers and immigrants going in to the US is even smaller than that of the UK. -
P fan #1
Joined: Jul '07
Posts: 1,415Posted 16 years ago #First up I have no strong views on immigration.
We all came (most likely) from Africa and then spread into Southern Europe and Spread around the coasts then eventually inland and overseas.
I don't believe anyone has any natrual right to any land, we've all got to live here.
That's why I dont get these BNP guys they're all for English people but what is that? They can't tell you.
We're an island and have been invaded so many times from so many different places, Scandinavia, The Romans etc.
Immigration has always happened and always will.
No one is 100% English or any other nation for that matter.
It is only area's of land and who the hell can say who "owns" that land?
Where I live there is a shop and about 50-60% of the employees are Polish. They are polite, work hard, have a laugh with you, have learnt the language and have taken extremely well to our way of living like English humour and such like. The amount has decreased lately as more "English" people are looking for work and quite a few of the Polish have gone home or elsewhere.
Then we have familes who have lived locally for a few generations and they are a bunch of bums. Don't work, don't plan to work, have sh!t loads of children and are taking a fortune in benefits.
These people are costing the economy more than illegal or legal immigrants without a doubt. These are the sort of people causing trouble when you go out on a Friday night, these are the sort of people yelling obscenities in the street, getting free ops for non essential healthcare, their children are the ones disrupting lessons at school, they're the blight of our and the global society.
If people want to come here and work, contribute, learn the lingo and want to get along with each other then why not? Don't punish them becasue they're from another country, when we've got these down and outs screwing the system not giving a f***. They do it, their children will do it, their childrens children will do it.
A few years ago when out having a few beers a guy I went to school with was getting the piss taken out of him for not having a job and he said... "Why would I get a job when I can get money (dole) for doing nothing" he said the government had made it too easy for him!
I think he has at least 2 children from 2 different girls.
Sorry if I've gone off topic I got lost in the rant.
PEACE. -
The Architect
Joined: Feb '05
Posts: 3,618Posted 16 years ago #asylum seekers have the worst luck in the UK. Treated like sh!t, locked up, not allowed to work, given £5 a week Somerfield vouchers... and this is after trying to leave some even more f***ed up situation.
Give a little love people, damn.
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