I've been checking the news a bit today, and I'm seeing articles about Rick Ross having two or three seizures this week... ouch...
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P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 3,255Posted 14 years ago # -
new cat
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 4Posted 14 years ago #MOBB DEEP hell on earth
COMMON be
HANDSOME BOY MODELING SCHOOL both ov em
every KANYE record, except watch the throne & graduation
FANTASTIC vol2
PAUL'S BOUTIQUE
MOMENT OF TRUTH
DELTRON 3030
BIGGIE life after death
NAS it was written
WU TANG FOREVER
*retracted* JAYZ blueprinti like kanye and jayz as rappers. kan#1&2 were uneven and fulla skits i disliked. graduation is my favorite of his (but i can't stand 'stronger.' ) 808's & MBTDF (or whatever its called) was overproduced/songs coulda been stronger (ha).
Blueprint is a big record. came out on 9/11 i remember bumping through ATL in the backseat, that sh!t blasting. i think most of the tracks range from ok to incredible. but, cause it's such a big record, i feel its overrated.its a good lp for sure, back then i hated it. i was on some prefuse 73, sea and cake, belle and sebastian, sleater kinney tip
@loudwon - i used to like paul's boutique. when i was in middle school. still like some songs. that sh!t did not age well to me. i prefer ILL COMM
FANTASTIC VOL2 is overrated. i remember when that dropped. a few kids had that record straight off okayplayer groupthink. my friends, for the most part, couldn't understand why the group was so BAD AT RAPPING. now, we can see the styling involved, but i remember my dude had fantastic1 on wax-he used to be like"you gotta see em live, it'll make sense" sadly the original 3 didnt keep it together long enough. but of course, CLIMAX, FALL IN LOVE, PLAYERS are great.
DETROIT DELI is much more satisfying. far as albums that you rarely wanna skip throughMOMENT OF TRUTH: sh!t is waaaaay too long at 78 minutes. plus these beats remind me of all the fake primo beats. this was rite when his beats started losing their edge. in memory of, betrayl, royalty, above, steez, are all great joints. half that record,10/20 tracks are boring.
IT WAS WRITTEN a new generation, lupe, tyler, and even j-zone believe that the raps on this were slept on, and they rival/exceed the quality of illmatic.
LIFE AFTER DEATH i bought that monday night at midnight the day it dropped (member those?) . got it home, popped it in. and was sorta sad. not as sad as when i bought the QUADRUPLE VINYL of wu tang forever - imagine yr man, listening to 4 shiti songs, then flipping the record over, 4 more stinkers, put on another record, 4 more stinkers, flip it over, 4 more stinkers... black shampoo and dog sh*t are the only songs off the double disc disck suck i can stand
. to be on this list, a record has to be generally viewed as better than i think it is. so, to be clear, this IS NOT a list of records that i think suck. it's stuff that many people say they love, and i don't know why.
ps:WTT received mixed reviews, most saying it was impossible to live up to the hype- thusly, it is Not an overrated album. it's a good enough album
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12
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 62Posted 14 years ago #I would agree that HBMS is a bit overrated, especially when Deltron 3030 and Wanna Buy A Monkey are both way better albums that Automator produced.
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P fan #1
Joined: May '10
Posts: 577Posted 14 years ago #SactownConnection said:
I asked this question a while back about albums being overrated, and I also made that fat list of artists, so I take responsibility for starting it.
Sorry, man!!In my defense, I think I just wanted to see what kinds of hip hop listeners were on these boards, so I started asking a lot of questions (still ask them, actually), but maybe I was a little off-base to ask this one because of the negative swing it could've taken.
All good, Sac, I don't blame ya. I'm also interested in peoples musical tastes.
I was simply astounded at the amount of negativity in this thread. I sometimes worry that that kind of attitude is something all too common in Hip Hop - I for one have yet to see similar arguments by people who listen to rock music for lack of a better example... Don't hate - appreciate!That being said I'm still fighting the urge to reply to some of the criticism offered for certain albums on this thread. I think there's quite a few points that could be mentioned in favor of most of those albums...
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P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 3,255Posted 14 years ago #Yeah, I feel you... but actually, sometimes in rock music, you get CRAZY fans that will go postal on someone for saying... oh, I don't know... "Dokken sucks!" "Metallica sold out!"... it gets psycho.
And you'd think that more calm artists wouldn't draw people like that, but on Ben Folds' (singer/songwriter) message boards, there are some D*CKS, and other people back up their right to be that way. I'm a pianist, and Folds can play the instrument pretty d*mn well, and his live shows are a blast, so the only other time I joined a message board, I went on his.
Long story short, there was this one guy calling Ben's new album "faggoty", "trash", etc. and saying "he hasn't put out a good song since '95" and all this other stuff. You'd think people would tell him to go away, but instead, they all tried to jump on the "cool" band wagon and find things to dislike about it. Ben even came on the boards and started asking questions, and people were disrespectful to his face.
I basically got run off the boards when I told the crazy dude that he need to calm down about it and find something to appreciate about the music. Then when I tried to come back, he started purposefully targeting just my posts and tearing down everything I said. I just told the moderator "sorry, dude, but if you can't regulate this sh*t somehow, you're gonna wind up with a troll board and a bunch of negative, sad-*ss people... enjoy it." and I've never been back.
This thread isn't all that bad, but it is probably the most negative one I've been on so far on this site. Personally, as long as everyone on here is handling it okay, and no one takes "anyone who likes/dislikes this artist/that artist DOESN'T KNOW HIP-HOP" or "Kanye licks sweaty monkey balls" or whatever, then I'd say we can keep the tone negative... if someone's upset by it though, maybe we all oughta cool out, go over to the "underrated" thread, and start posting some stuff we LIKE.
Sorry for the length of this post... but yeah, you all suck. Don't make me come to your hometown and beat your *ss.
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P fan #1
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 3,255Posted 14 years ago #Haha, thanks for the Cliff's Notes on my post. I get long-winded sometimes.
Very thankful that we're respectful on here. And to think that all the middle-agers and baby boomers think that hip hop is all gangsterism... it p*sses me off.
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P fan #1
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 588Posted 14 years ago #I asked this question a while back about albums being overrated, and I also made that fat list of artists, so I take responsibility for starting it. Sorry, man!!
No need to apologize Sac. It was a legitimate question. It’s not your fault some people can’t handle other people’s opinions. I also appreciate that some people can offer substantive reasons for their opinions such as yourself and Eso, instead of the all too common punchlines and one-liners.
This thread isn't all that bad, but it is probably the most negative one I've been on so far on this site. Personally, as long as everyone on here is handling it okay, and no one takes "anyone who likes/dislikes this artist/that artist DOESN'T KNOW HIP-HOP" or "Kanye licks sweaty monkey balls" or whatever, then I'd say we can keep the tone negative... if someone's upset by it though, maybe we all oughta cool out, go over to the "underrated" thread, and start posting some stuff we LIKE.
Well, someone did take the “anyone who likes/dislikes this artist/that artist DOESN’T KNOW HIP-HOP” stance (very poorly argued) so I had to say something. Aside from that, I don’t think this thread is negative at all. One can offer arguments without being argumentative.
However, I do believe that there are significant people in hip-hop culture that everyone who claims to be hip-hop should know or be in the process of getting to know (if they are younger). And some significant people/groups of people would include Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Kool Herc, BDP, the Juice Crew, and the Rock Steady Crew among others.
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12
Joined: Aug '11
Posts: 94Posted 14 years ago #I did think that the "if you don't like Jay Z, you don't like hip hop" comment was outta pocket, but I still think that the dude is a hip hop legend and has dropped some classic albums. Does he deserve all the insane amounts of money and fame he gets now? Probably not... but the guy was a good lyricist back in the day. To call him straight up garbage is going a little too far imo
I can't really defend his new sh!t though. "New York" was pretty awful and overplayed like crazy.
But after reading your guys' lists I can see that my tolerance for mainstream artists is much higher than the a lot of you here. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I still love a lot of lesser known artists and the grandfathers of hiphop like freshkest mentioned (bdp, grandmaster flash, afrika bambataa) . f*** it, I just love all forms of hip hop in general :D
I really like E-40 for example, that dude is a bay area legend, but I can see he's gettin no love on the forum haha. Double K did give him a shoutout on Fun DMC though! and he was sampled on stepfather too haha
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P fan #1
Joined: Mar '10
Posts: 818Posted 14 years ago #Fool on the Hill said:
Lock N Load,
I respect your view of Jay Z although I do not necessarily agree with it. "Reasonable Doubt" was a good, not great, album. "D'evils" was incredible and Premier was on point with that one (but then again, when is he not?). I do enjoy both "Brooklyn's Finest" and "Dead Presidents II" but the rest of the album really didn't hit me as "classic." Blueprint was alright, but I wasn't a big fan, and same goes for his newer stuff. But that is my opinion that I am entitled to have just as you are entitled to have yours.
..............................(trying to cut it down)
Jay Z is a great artist in your mind, but in other people's minds he may not be as good. You shouldn't take that personally, it is simply an opinion, we all have them. But when you say we don't know hip hop, that is a direct attack on the people of this forum. By saying "and are probably hating on the man's cash flow, period," and assuming that we are blindly forming our opinion's of him, you are showing the same ignorance you accuse us of.You read my mind perfectly!!!
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new cat
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 7Posted 14 years ago #esomedina said:
I think people refer to Resurrection as Common's classic, not Can I Borrow A Dollar.As for Illmatic, it's classicness derives from being the first of its kind. I mean, you had to be "there" in 1994 and to have popped that tape in when it was released. Nothing like it existed beforehand. That combination of producers didn't exist on an album before. That flow hadn't existed beforehand. Well, maybe modeled after Rakim, but Nas was different. I mean, The World Is Yours alone makes the entire album classic. Maybe due to it being so short, but that album had no filler. Each song could stand alone and been a single/video. How many albums can claim that beside Beyonce's B'Day? lol
As for Blackstar, again, not to sound like a history teacher or some old relic, but do any of you remember the Rawkus era? When they ruled the 12" market. When all you knew of Mos Def was from "If You Can Huh You Can Hear" and Kweli from "2000 Seasons" ? Only way to hear this dope stuff was to have your own turntable and buy the vinyl or listen to college radio mix shows with tape decks on pause waiting for the next mix to start. Maybe these songs were on the SoundBombing compilation later on, but still, different times. Now with that context, to hear two of the dopest emcees of that era to combine for an album? Crazy! Then for that album to be dope from track 1 to track 13? Mos Def's verse on "Thieves In The Night" is something beyond explaining how good it is.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. To each their own. But I'm curious why you guys don't hold these albums with such a high regard as someone like me.
It's almost like if you don't hear whatever album is deemed a classic in it's original time period, you'll never understand why it's revered. So, I can see why those albums aren't held as classic if heard from an after the fact point of view.
Good post. You know what you're talking about buddy.
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EP
Joined: Apr '05
Posts: 178Posted 14 years ago #Boombip, like I said I went a little over the top in trying to make a point, already said I went 'emo' on it, so I'm not sure what else I can say.
I'm just off the same mindset as eightbitbreaks, I have a higher tolerance for mainstream artists than I think a lot here. I mean there are major differences in the mainstream, Jay-z and I'd even argue T.I. are a lot different breed of artists, than new-age garbage like Souljah Boy.
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new cat
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 4Posted 14 years ago #http://www.complex.com/music/2011/10/method-man-25-essential-songs
it's a fantastic read. you get heretofore unpublished insights into some of my favorite Wu joints.
but after reading that-- i HAD to come up in here and feel even more validated. EVEN METH said he wasnt feeling himself on much of Wu Tang Forever. He also admitted to recording an uninspired verse on HELL ON EARTHre:esomedina's blackstar post:
i feel you about the rawkus days, to a point. i'm 30, and my mind was blown away by both the reflection eternal & mos def 12"s. but i wasnt feeling that album. i think they were believing their own hype, just like many fans at that time. i always, half-jokingly, claim that both mos & kweli fell off after their first singles (i know, in mos' case, he technically had music before that). outside of those 2 single, the company flow lp, and a few joints here and there, rawkus was wack. that's why i think a group like PUTS is cool to this day--they have a body of work that refines and rethinks it's sound. they don't bend to the style of the year, nor do they let their sound stagnate (like with Wu after 96, hiero after ?, dre after 2001...). blackstar had a sound, sort of. all the beats on that were made by a wide variety of cats. unlike illmatic, the vibe was nostalgic in a way that even at 18 yrs old or whatever, it sounded stale and retro. in other words, they KNOW what dope sounds like, but they struggled to create their own dopeness that wasn't informed by an amorphous aesthetic that could too easily slip into competent - but uninspired territory (like 9th wonder's career). the critical acclaim of that record gave a lotta producers the idea that an aight loop and some boring drums is enough to be "real hip hop," illmatic wasnt nostalgic like that. when those single dropped on rap city- that sh!t sounded new! the lion's share of Blackstar was all too familiar. I mean, why give that burn when eminem is doing his thing, atmosphere, cage, (white rap renaissance!) the internet was making it easier to hear regional stuff like blowed/CVE releases, solesides,...& fondle 'em et al--cage/necro, mf doom, juggaknots-were pushing harder interms of progressive concepts and flow. granted, the non-album approach of the label made it so that there was little room for filler
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